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Watching Bush go down as the worst president in history before his first term even begins: pricelss.
yeah, but Clinton lied about SEX!!!
When I see a post like this, I know why Kerry lost. I am perplexed that anybody thinks this is powerful rhetoric. How ignorant to you have to be to ignore the bursting of the internet bubble, the economy going into recession in the last couple of quarters of Clinton's administration, a million jobs lost, Enron and Worldcom?This just won't sell--most people aren't this stupid, and those that are can't do us any good.As virtually everyone concluded after the election--we just didn't get the message out, and who's fault was that? When we say transparently stupid things like this, we open ourselves to looking foolish, and plently of people on the right are just waiting for the opportunity.Its so depressing.
Hmm, sounds like your not really on our side.To the rest of the Daily Kos readers - Welcome! Site traffic just went through the roof. Please come back again ... and again.
I suppose in 8 years everything will still be Clinton's fault. There seems to be no statute of limitations for blaming the previous administration. Clinton apparently took over a booming economy from George I, caused a recession, and passed it along to King George II. When the Dems win the next election, will it be OK to blame anything on Bush? Never mind. I get it...Anything good = Result of past or current Republican policyAnything bad = Result of current, past, or future Democrats
"How ignorant to you have to be to ignore the bursting of the internet bubble, the economy going into recession in the last couple of quarters of Clinton's administration, a million jobs lost, Enron and Worldcom?"And how exactly did Bush remedy all these things?I'm so sick of hearing how the economy was in a recession towards the end of Clinton's run. Okay, I'll concede that, but then what positive steps did Bush take to counter it?
Gee, let's build our strategy on rhetoric, too. Abandon logic!We lost for several reasons: 1) they were able to monopolize nationalist feelings (from 9/11 and support for the troops), 2) they convinced the masses that liberals are attacking christianity, and 3) the media was cowed into abandoning any credible critical reporting on the administration.We got our message out, it just got whipped by theirs. The tide was with them. I think we did pretty well considering the great hand they got dealt.
"When we say transparently stupid things like this"Facts and figures are stupid things? Oh, right. You're quoting Reagan.
Will people stop saying that the recession started in Clinton's term - IT DIDN'T START UNTIL MARCH 2001 !!! The "rate of growth" started slowing near the end of 2000, but a recession doesn't start until the economy actually starts shrinking. Incidentally, the recession ended in November 2001; after more than 3 years of recovery, there's STILL a net loss of jobs. That's never happened before .... ever .... not even in the Great Depression.What a tool.
Actually in 1936 unemployment went through the roof as the depression spiked again.
"Watching Bush go down as the worst president in history before his first term even begins: pricelss."(I assume you meant 'second' term). If the main entry shows anything, it shows that there is a price to pay. Though, if it continues to grow, it may enter the 'priceless' bracket.
To my mind, Bush actually precipitated his recession from the moment he was selected. He started trashing the economy to justify his tax handouts - he created his own ill wind. An honest leader would have rally'd the people, stimulated bright ideas, got things going. But, that would be like work. Instead, he took the liars way, something he repeated several dozen times in the last 4 years to the detriment of our commons, tens of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans and approaching 2000 American dead (not to forget the Poles, and the Brits and the Spaniards and Italians and and and who also died.
Bushrule: Take a bad economy, make it worse, justify it with war.
I blame the niggers.
You forgot one more statistic: The approximately 3000 deaths that resulted from his failure to protect the US from terrorists on September 11th.
You should use The Coalition Casualty Count for your Casualty numbersUS Casualties in IraqDeath 1,370Wounded 10,502
>>>"When I see a post like this, I know why Kerry lost. I am perplexed that anybody thinks this is powerful rhetoric. How ignorant to you have to be to ignore the…"This is the first post I've ever read on this site. I noticed up in the top-right corner it said "Numbers in the news. The news in numbers."Kewl, I thought. A statistical way of looking at things.All I find is just biased dribble, albeit backed up by statistics. What the 2nd Anonymous said.Worst. Site. Evah. Can't believe Kos linked this sinff-fest.
Nicely done.I agree with whoever said that for Bsuh and his cadre of fanatics, everything bad is the democrtas fault and everything good (which is usually just made-up bullshit anyway) is exclusively the result of republican magnificience.
"How ignorant to you have to be to ignore the bursting of the internet bubble, the economy going into recession in the last couple of quarters of Clinton's administration, a million jobs lost, Enron and Worldcom?"As ignorant as one who ignores tax cuts, a 33% increase in deficit spending, and a $150,000,000,000+ optional war under just those circumstances. Moron.
Hey sore losers----GET OVER IT
All you douche bags that voted for Kerry or Bush instead of a viable 3rd party candidate like Badnarik can suck a dick.
Someone wrote:"Hey sore losers----GET OVER IT"This is a common and overused statement by conservatives. When they say "get over it", what they are really saying is "I don't want to hear it, it makes me uncomfortable for you to point out the hypocrasy and factual problems with my world perspective, so just shut up".I have news for those people. We are NEVER going to get over it, we are NEVER going to shut up. We are going to fight until reason and sanity and justice come back to this country.Here's a quote from that know nothing Jefferson, from 1798:"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt.... If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake." -- Thomas Jefferson, June 4, 1798, in a letter to John Taylor of Philadelphia, after passage of the Alien and Sedition Act
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"All I find is just biased dribble, albeit backed up by statistics."The word is "drivel," you ignorant twit. And since when are facts "biased"?
People see what they _choose_ to see. The great power of statistics and statistical information is that one can present the information in ways that encourage people to see what they _choose_ to see. One can even discourage the likelihood that people will _choose_ to look at your information in the first place. We are not equal parts rational and irrational. We are a bunch of emotionally reactive, irrational creatures, attempting constantly to act with rationality, and choosing to apply our limited rationality (and limited patience with rationality) in different areas of our lives, as befits our basically irrational, emotional mindsets.-- Michael Teegarden
My wife IM's with a woman in Wisconsin who said her rationale for voting for Bush was that "He's not afraid to mention Jesus". She didn't know any of his policies.Why can't we just kill all the dumb people in this country?!
Oh Please! The economy was in recession for the "last couple of years of the Clinton administration"?!? On what planet? The recession OFFICIALLY started during the 1st quarter of 2001. That gives less than 3 weeks under Clinton. I'll admit to a "slowdown" in 2000, but nothing like the last 4 years of the Bush disaster.
I'd be curious to see the total number of deaths in Iraq, not just the American ones. I'd be especially curious to find out how many Iraqi children died. The president claims a position of all human life is sacred, and all life comes from God, and what not, wouldn't that include Iraqi life. Our casualties are mostly military casualties. The casualties in Iraq are just the people who live and work there.
Sorry, I meant to say, "many of the casualties..."
"Why can't we just kill all the dumb people in this country?!"Because there wouldn't be any liberals left?LOL too easy....
Nicely said, of course, someone that voted for W should be exepected to be so callous toward his fellow man, The republican party has proven time and again, for those willing to do the research, that it has no care, not only for our own country, but for its citizens. George Bush didn't run on his record..did he? why? because his record is easily the worst of any president to take the office. And yet, our American brothers and sisters put him back in office. Continue with the anti-liberal bias, your no different than the news. What liberal media!? For you republicans out there, enjoy your time, your boy is putting us deeper in debt, has turned world opinion, and trade now against us. Our trade deficit, thru W's foreign policy hits new daily records now. Well done. For those that think that America can survive on her own, THINK AGAIN. History lessons are obviously lost on the right. Which reminds me, how did they become the "right" party? Pulease. Look back thru history...if you dare, and look at what republican party actions of have done to this country. Statistics from the gov'ts own GAO website confirm, this president has done nothing to help the economy. It even questions the tax cuts and how helpful they really were in gettin the economy backto where it was when Clinton left office. Say what you will about Clinton, but the truth is, that as a president, we was, and is, waaaaaaaay better than Bush could ever hope to be.
Join me in praying for a new and progressive way to do things, instead of the tried, but not true methods of the Big Business friend republican party.http://www.backwardsbush.com/index.php?osCsid=8f798181a6130eb094a44b5ad233e836
Actually, the recession began toward the end of 1999 and last until November 2001. Alan Greenspan warned of it in early 1999 in his speech to Congress. People have short memories when they think fondly of Clinton and have faulty logic when they blame Bush for everything. Nobody own you. The government doesn't own you or doesn't take care of you. You are responsible for yourself (and if you have your own family, you are responsible for them). Quit looking to the Congress or the Presidential Administration to solve your problems. To all Bush-haters: either get over it or move to North Korea or Iran!
Do you know how a recession is defined? It's 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth of GDP. Period. That's how it's defined. Your claim that the recession started in '99 is just not true. Look at the GDP quarterly (can it be posted here since it is the numeralist), and you can see for yourself.Put down the Kool Aid and join reality.
We failed to put out a clear message that people could believe in. No one on the outside saw Kerry the leader until the debates and by then it was too late. The campaign sat by all summer and let the Republicans do and say whatever they wanted and didn't do a thing about it.
the economy only entered a slowdown because of uncertainty of what idiot w. dipshit would do. without term limits, clinton would have won the 2000 election overwhelmingly. the dow would be where, 13,000+, 15,000+?
I didn't vote for Bush.
"How ignorant to you have to be to ignore the bursting of the internet bubble, the economy going into recession in the last couple of quarters of Clinton's administration, a million jobs lost, Enron and Worldcom?"1) I assume by mentioning the burst of the internet bubble, you are attempting to blame Clinton for the overall anemic performance of the market during the past four years: the market was artificially high in late 2000, so Bush can't be blamed.Bullshit.Look at a chart for the Dow over the past five years. The Dow recovered nicely from the post-9/11 slump well into 2002. And then what happened? W's pathetic response to corporate scandels, along with his fiscal recklessness, created a massive dip in the market, one we have barely come out of, despite incredible stimulus from the Bush debt which will bite us in the ass fairly soon.2) As others have reported here, the recession started in 2001. Period. Just 'cause Rush tells you otherwise doesn't make it so. And, by the way, Clinton (and Gore) said over and over again that the torrid pace of the '90's couldn't last (how could they, when Greenspan was doing everything in his power to cool off the economy?), so we had better get our fiscal house in order. Oh, sorry, I forgot, Fox News doesn't tell you things like that, do they? (Hey, look over there, they're cancelling Christmas!)3) A million jobs lost? I guess the 22 million created under Clinton doesn't count for anything, huh?4) Enron. Man, it takes a real set for a Bushie to try to pin Kenny Boy's ponzi scheme on the Democrats. You'll remember when the CA energy crisis started in 2001 (and I think you can make a case that THAT was a huge part of the recession), George didn't do a damn thing. Democrats were screaming to get FERC involved, but, hey, CA's a blue state, so they gotta pay the price, right?That nonsense is to be laid DIRECTLY at the feet of W.So, my wingnut friend, nice try, but no, 48% of us aren't that stupid. And many of the 51% are finding out, little by little, just how much they have been lied to.
There's a couple of important ones missing here:1.) the price of a barrel of oil. Last Friday's CLI close was 48.53 dollars.2.) the average indebtness of a US citizen, which has also soared during the last four years.The latter probably cannot be laid directly at Bush'sfeet, but I am certain that the direction ( greaterindividual debt ) is just as bad as all the other items cited.
Reply to ..."When we say transparently stupid things like this, we open ourselves to looking foolish, and plently of people on the right are just waiting for the opportunity."Yes... because we all know GWB has NEVER said anything stupid. May I refer you to:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743262522/qid=1106605879/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-0341628-9911130?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Of course Amazon.com will spin positively about Bush. They're a Republican organization. (Perhaps someone out there remembers the stats that Alterman posted a link to, which showed which organizations donated to which party and by what percentage of profits).
for corporate donations see www.choosetheblue.com or www.buyblue.org
Ok, I read what is on here. Here is the scoop: The election was stolen. The 2002 election was a practice run for this and the 2000 election was stolen, period. We have lost democracy as we've known it. Right now we still have a veneer of legitimacy, proceedure, justice, and freedom. What we are in for are more wars, and bigger ones. We need a draft for all that. To get a draft we need another 9/11, but much bigger, maybe by a couple of orders of magnitude. But it can't happen in the US, it has to happen to an ally, overseas, one that is "close to us" one that has "stood by us". That means England, friends. After the A-bomb goes of, let's say, oh, well, in London. There will be a call to arms for the West to rise against the horrific terrorists and then, draft, wars, and there'll be support in Europe, because they'll know who really did the bombing and they'll not want to resist.Welcome to Facist world. We have precious little time and there is nothing to do about it. Who would believe that Nazis still are a force in the world, have been instrumental to both sides through the cold war and that the profited heavily by playing spy for both sides. Now, they've already had their revenge on what was the USSR, they've hit at America, 9/11, and want to get back at England. Why didn't they "do in" America? Well, because we've become their tools. Does the radical turn to the right suprise anyone? An agressive foreign policy based on lies, smoke and mirrors? The conservative right, chrisitan coalitions, the marching morons? The media being centralized and corporatized? Wake up people and kiss your sorry asses good bye. We've wars a'comin' and they aren't even ours.How wonderful, don't forget to vote.
I get so tired of the lost jobs argument. Folks, it isn't the government's responsibility to provide jobs. It is YOUR responsibility to equip yourself with marketable skills that entice employers to hire you. There is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees citizens the right to a job. Stop blaming politicians for the effects of a natural economy.And for those that use "outsourcing" as an argument - please get a life. An owner of a company is in business to make profit. If said owner can increase profits by 25% by using resources in India, he has every right to do that. If you support the notion that the government should interfere with that right, then you don't support a free market society. And remember, the liberal media never reports on the number of jobs that are "insourced" to America. God forbid, they tell both sides of the story.
Simple stuff here:Regardless of when the recession began (and it began in full under Bush, though the slowdown began under Clinton), it was Bush's mess to fix. What did he do?He SPENT MORE MONEY. It can be smart to spend more money during a recession, if the money is used to stimulate jobs and growth. But this money was spent on personal income tax cuts that benefitted the wealthiest Americans. Reagan's experience with the fraud of trickle-down economics proved that giving money to the rich did not translate into broad-based economic growth. And we spent money on a legitimate war in Afghanistan and a hell of a lot more on an illegitimate war in Iraq. If your money isn't going to be spent for direct economic growth, you had better cut back other spending in order to prevent deepening the recession by deepening government debt. Didn't happen.Small-government conservatives never seem to mention this, but Bush and company expanded the government at a rate faster than any modern-era President.Government is bigger and more deeply into our pockets than ever before.Our economy is weak and getting weaker. The dollar is falling against the Euro as foreign firms grow in prominence in the world economy. The national unemployment rate is fairly low, but the rate never counts those who have left the job market entirely. The rate (not the number, though that's also a record-high) of people completely out of the job market is at a record high, and surging higher monthly. Within that number is an abnormally high number of young people who ought to be working.And to those morons who believe Bush when he says reelection validates everything he's done for four years (the so-called "accountabililty moment"), I say to you:Get over it.Your man will go down as one of the worst Presidents ever, and the single worst two-term President in history. The shame is, the damage is self-inflicted.It's almost as if God himself wanted it this way...
*He was re-elected by a solid majority*His policies HAVE BEEN validated by the American voters*He put MORE of the money you EARN back in your pocket to stimulate the economy - and it worked*Anyone can balance make a profit (ie. balance a budget) if the price (ie. the tax) is high enough. Clinton proved that (highest tax rates in decades when he left office)*Reagan and Kennedy knew that tax cuts lead to revenue growth*AND - for crying out loud - of course the rich get a bigger share of a tax break. They PAY A LARGER percentage of taxes!! So your argument is that because you make more, you should pay more taxes, but when there is a tax cut, it should be equal across the board?? Hell, 40% of the country doesn't pay a dollar in taxes anyway. Do they deserve a "tax" break?
Bush is a lying corrupt idiot liar.
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